Why Men Need a Strong Brotherhood Around Them

Coach Brian Parana (0:12.736) Few years back, my guest today hit one of the hardest stretches of his life. He landed in a dark place. And as guys, we find that happening occasionally in our life, and we want to avoid that as much as possible. This is the kind that most people don't actually ever share with anyone, and Nicky actually has. And it caused him to change a lot. One phone call to a friend, pulled him out of it, and he walked into a room full of strangers, guys that Coach Brian Parana (0:39.028) We're looking to lift each other up. And that room changed him. In 2018, he started his own group. It became a movement called Sovereign Men. Nicky Billou is a two-time New York Times best-selling author with hundreds of podcast experiences. But that is not why he's here today. He's here because we're going to be talking about what he understands most about men. And we need to get this out. And that's one of the undertones of what we're doing here on this podcast. Coach Brian Parana (1:8.006) And you can't carry it all alone. You have to stay strong. You have to step up as a man. And a brotherhood is something that he has really been able to foster and appreciate. And I too am looking to be around like-minded men as well. And that's one of the five pillars of my program. So Nicky Billou, welcome to our podcast. This is episode 135 of Driven for Health. Coach Brian Parana (1:31.136) So thank you for coming and I want you to light us up here. What is one actionable takeaway these guys listening in need to hear about our conversation? Nicky Billou (1:36.174) Brian, thanks for having me on the show. It's a really real honor to be here. And you're doing great work, man. Keep it up. Keep it up. You know, before great question. Before I answer it, let me tell my backstory a little bit. How I got into men's work. So years ago I was married and had two kids with this woman, and I thought our marriage was good. Coach Brian Parana (1:45.686) Yeah. Coach Brian Parana (1:57.268) Yeah, please. Nicky Billou (2:6.347) But seemingly out of the blue, she decided we shouldn't be married anymore. Shocked me, sent me into a negative spiral. And I blamed everybody but myself for that. And it was not a good time and it was not a good place. But a couple of things happened that helped begin the turnaround process. So one is Coach Brian Parana (2:19.114) Yeah, right. Nicky Billou (2:37.402) there was a woman I knew who had been an instructor on a program I'd done. And that program was a pretty intense program, and you know, we got to know each other well and she was somebody I liked and I trusted and I told her about all this and she knew my ex wife because we actually met in her program. And she came to me and she said, You need to go work with this man, Owen Williams. Nicky Billou (3:3.467) He runs a men's group, he also helps men in relationship distress. So I went to see Owen, signed up for his men's group, and started working with him one on one about my relationship distress. And that was my real introduction to being in group with other men. And what I learned was a man in pain can only have his pain removed by other men. It's not gonna happen. Nicky Billou (3:33.538) By a woman. And that was an eye opener for me because you know, all my life I've been around, you know, my mother and other women that I dated, etc. And I thought that you know something goes wrong. You go to your mom or you go to a woman, she kisses it better and you move on. But that wasn't happening. And I was in this group. Coach Brian Parana (3:40.894) Or by yourself because you're sitting in despair. Nicky Billou (4:3.095) For a solid year and three quarters. And it was a paid group, right? So I paid good money to be a member of this group. And it was not easy. It was tough. These men were Nicky Billou (4:19.457) There to sharpen me, not coddle me, and vice versa. And Owen and I would see each other one-on-one at least once a week, and he'd give me coaching and Nicky Billou (4:36.767) I then joined another group after being in this one for a year and three quarters. And I became Nicky Billou (4:46.761) more into that group than Owen's group. First of all, it was not a paid group, it was volunteers. And you know at the time that was helpful because money was tight, very tight. But secondly the group, if anything, was full of men that were more masculine than these other men, less emotional. Nicky Billou (5:17.003) But more determined to not let me buy my own bullshit. Nicky Billou (5:23.509) And after Nicky Billou (5:27.053) Two years almost with Owen's group and then a solid three plus years with this group. I found myself in a weekend men's retreat that the group had put together with a bunch of other groups and that was a paid event. Although not an expensive paid event, but it was a paid event. And there was a fella in there that I just didn't like. He rubbed me the wrong way. He was an asshole, just to tell you the truth. Nicky Billou (5:57.996) Yeah, he was an asshole. Me first, self-centered piece of you know what. But he did me a great service while we were in this course because he got under my skin to the point where I got up and I was ready to deck him. Bunch of men grabbed me. And I just let me at him, let me at him. But they were having none of it. And he said something while they were holding on to me. He said, When are you gonna stop? Coach Brian Parana (6:2.513) Just call it the way it is, right? Nicky Billou (6:27.073) Blaming yourself for the breakup of your marriage. Nicky Billou (6:32.415) And my white hot anger started to dissipate when he said that, 'cause that question hit me hard. And then he said, When are you gonna stop blaming your ex? Nicky Billou (6:44.565) And then the anger dissipated some more. He says, When are you just gonna take responsibility? Not like you did something awful, but just responsibility that you did it. Nicky Billou (6:55.243) When are you gonna start taking the first step to healing? And then I collapsed, all the anger was out of me, and I just started bawling like a baby. And all these men are standing around and they weren't sure what to think because one minute I was ready to deck this man. Next minute I'm lying down on the floor and bawling. And after it seemed like forever, but it couldn't have been more than five or ten minutes. Nicky Billou (7:25.641) I just said, you know what, I'm done blaming her, I'm done blaming me, and I take full responsibility for what happened. And I felt a weight lift off. Nicky Billou (7:37.908) At that moment the instructors chose to call a break. Now this group Nicky Billou (7:45.771) When you walked in the room, you turned off your cellphone and you handed it in. Cell phone was not allowed to be on. It had to be off and handed in. Coach Brian Parana (7:47.250) Right. Nicky Billou (7:55.938) Hand it in. Like you did not get to keep your phone and walk into the room. You turned it off in front of a man and you handed it to him and you know he put your name on it and put it away. And so at the break, we got our phones back for the break. And I grabbed my phone and I turned it on. The instant I turned it on, a call was coming through. And it was my ex. We had not spoken in over a year. Coach Brian Parana (8:6.646) That's smart. Coach Brian Parana (8:11.421) Yep, that's good. Yeah. Nicky Billou (8:27.817) And I went, Hello and she didn't say anything. I heard her sobbing and crying and she just said I'm sorry and I said, For what? And she said, I've been trying to punish you, hurt you. And that's wrong of me. You're a good man. And Coach Brian Parana (8:33.046) I'm getting some good energy here. Wow. Nicky Billou (8:57.823) even though we didn't work out, you don't deserve this. And I'm gonna stop doing that. And she says, I'm gonna sign the divorce papers. And divorce papers had been in limbo for two years. Everything had been agreed to, she just wouldn't sign them. So she finally signed them. Nicky Billou (9:19.219) And the divorce went through. Now you gotta understand this was a walking talking miracle, man. God almighty brought me to a place with a man that I intensely disliked, a man I wanted to deck, and through this imperfect messenger gave me a message, which I accepted and Nicky Billou (9:44.716) That message energetically, the moment it got accepted, caused a shift energetically in her, and she picked up the phone and called me. Like that is divine intervention of the highest order. And you know, since that time I became even more determined, A, to live my own life in a certain way as a man, but to continue the work with men and help other men. Nicky Billou (10:15.221) see what they needed to see. Now not every man goes through a divorce. Not every man has those kinds of fights. Not every man gets married. Not every man has children. But in this day and age every man's going through something. Nicky Billou (10:31.393) This world is pretty fucked up in the way that it treats men right now. And in particular in the West. And so Coach Brian Parana (10:37.019) very much so. Nicky Billou (10:45.121) The message to the men listening to your show is really simple. Nicky Billou (10:51.775) You need other men. You're not gonna figure it out on your own. You're not that smart, you're not that strong, you're not that creative or capable, and that is no knock on you, no man is. No man is. Brotherhood is how men grow, get better, succeed, make their relationships work. Nicky Billou (11:21.367) Brotherhood. In the last 60 years, the idea of men's brotherhoods has been utterly demolished by society, by this bullshit, ungodly, anti-human, anti-god leftist claptrap, which has taken hold in our society. And if you're listening to this, your job is to push back against that shit and say, no, fuck that. I'm not. Nicky Billou (11:50.444) Buying a word, you're saying, I'm going to figure things out for myself with like-minded men. That's the message. Nicky Billou (12:0.269) Yeah, it's that might take responsibility for yourself and not here [cross-talk] Coach Brian Parana (12:4.811) that you gotta step up and take responsibility for yourself. No one's here to pick up after you, wipe your butt, and give you handouts. That's just not it. And if that's what you're expecting or looking for, then you're gonna experience life on a much diminished level and not to its true capacity that you could have in this life then in this world that we have. Nicky Billou (12:26.797) problem with most men isn't that they're lacking the desire to take responsibility. The problem with most men is that they're alone. They're not in a brotherhood, they're not in a group, they don't have any friends. They don't have any friends. The average American man today has zero friends. Zero friends. This is an agreement or not agreement, this is statistical fact. Zero friends. That is a massive, massive problem. Nicky Billou (12:57.495) And I'm not talking about somebody. Coach Brian Parana (13:3.050) Yep. I'll even throw myself in there, Nicky. I have a great friend from middle school. I still talk to him. In fact he's coming in this barn here. We're gonna work out in about two hours. And I've seen him about three times this week. And we lift weights and we talk about life. He's got four kids, I have four kids, and there's just a lot of life that we've lived together. So he's Dan. I have Chris. Chris is another father of four. Coach Brian Parana (13:28.756) That he comes and works out in this barn and we use that as a communal place to be able to lift, share time together. Then I have Andy that I run with, and but he's been really busy this summer. We would drop our kids off and go run and we'll pick that back up. And then I have Leo, who's a longtime high school friend. But after that, I don't have any. They're acquaintances, but I don't have any close relationships. And even it goes from highest, the first one, down to the lowest, the last one I said of Dan. Coach Brian Parana (13:58.519) Chris, Andy, Leo, in terms of how much impact or time or energy that they have in my life. And it goes and it distills down. So because I've got four kids, I'm self-responsible for my kids, my wife, and for my business and this podcast and everything. So I'm busy. And that ends up being the rat race that we're in, is falling into this provider role or just having to keep up with the hustle and Coach Brian Parana (14:26.270) make money and pay bills and all this stuff. So you just get very disconnected and deep lost in the problems that you're experiencing and have no one or anyone to share with. Nicky Billou (14:30.871) Well, it's great that you're friends with your high school buddies. That's unusual because most men aren't. But candidly it's not enough for them or for you. And let me just be blunt, you're probably a case of the blind leading the blind. You all need some older men who give a shit about you to tell you things that you just don't know and haven't experienced. And the four of you trying to help one another do it is better than nothing. Coach Brian Parana (14:55.978) Yeah. Yeah. Nicky Billou (15:0.929) But your peer, your direct peer, doesn't have the experiences you need to learn from. Right. You don't have the experiences you need to learn from. And so Coach Brian Parana (15:1.514) Mm-hmm. Coach Brian Parana (15:7.828) Right. Right. We are all going through the same. Yep. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Nicky, you know what the other part is, is that my dad hasn't been an active role in my life for twenty some years. So I don't have anyone above with wisdom or guidance or anyone, you know, my best, hey, I need to fix something. I'm gonna go YouTube it, not go ask my dad. Coach Brian Parana (15:34.930) or my grandpa or something to get their wisdom and their involvement in my life. And it just is what it is at this point. But I feel that personally. Nicky Billou (15:41.150) Every man on earth feels that. I'm 58, I'll be 59 next month. There's a man named Richmond, first name Steve in my world. I call him when I run into shit. I speak to him a couple times a week. There's another man in my world who's younger than I am, but he's had a lot of experience in learning how to keep his cool. Nicky Billou (16:11.509) successfully. And you know, for me, that's not been my strong suit. So I call him, his name is Banks, first name Jefferson. And I speak to him pretty regularly because whenever I speak to him, I learn about how to keep my cool and not lose my cool in situations where it's not warranted for. And almost every situation it isn't warranted. So Nicky Billou (16:40.181) the whole point like within Sovereign Man, there are men who have perspective skill sets that I just don't have. And every man who's in that community is there for a similar reason. They want access to perspectives that they don't naturally have. Coach Brian Parana (16:57.002) Right, of course. Coach Brian Parana (17:12.938) Yeah. It's very true. 'Cause you only see the world through your own lens. And as much as you can widen it, you're still confined to this much. Whereas someone outside of you can see a different angle of you or your life. And as they get to know and understand and you build those relationships with them, then they can call you out on your bullshit or they can give you the advice or the wisdom to not fall into bullshit as well. So you can stay on the path that's best for you. Coach Brian Parana (17:40.640) And that serves the people closest to you and ultimately give back value to the world too. And not just be bogged down with whatever the problems the challenges are in life because they're many. They're always in many. It's always gonna be problems. Nicky Billou (17:51.694) Yeah. One thousand percent. One thousand percent. So a man listening to this is going, Well, what do I do? Well, first and foremost, you gotta go find a good group of men. There's a number of them that are available. I mean, in your local area there's probably a Bible based one that's available somewhere. So if you're a Christian man, that's a good place for you to start. I'm Nicky Billou (18:20.243) Our group Sovereign Man is at sovereignman.ca. You're interested in finding out about what we do and how we do it, you can go there and you know send a message and say, Hey, I'd like to check out one of your meetings. And there's literally tons of other groups, but if you're by yourself primarily or you have, you know, a peer group, but it's guys who mostly think the same, are the same, grew up the same. Nicky Billou (18:49.067) You want to do something about that. That's the first. Yeah, that's the first thing you want to do is do something about that. And what I'm finding today is men crave masculine only space. They crave it. They don't even know they crave it, but they crave it. I had Dr. Robert Glover on my podcast. He's the author of the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. No More Mr. Nice Guy. Robert Glover. Coach Brian Parana (18:55.294) You're in the — Yeah, you're in the wrong room. Nicky Billou (19:18.537) Is amazing. That book sold 25 million copies. I mean, it did really, really well. And he was the one who told me men are craving masculine only spaces, and most of them don't even realize it. But when they come into a masculine only space, that it's a good one, they just want to continue to be there. That's why I run the groups I run. You know, I run Sovereign Men, I run a dinner mastermind. Nicky Billou (19:45.614) group that meets once a month. Would charge a hundred bucks for men to come. It includes the price of the meal. It's really good. Men love it. Like men are younger men, older men, they're all like, yeah, I want to be a part of this. Nicky Billou (20:2.141) I know. Coach Brian Parana (20:6.359) It's awesome. And what do you see from — let's go into a story so the guys can relate on this particular situation of where they're at when they start Coach Brian Parana (20:20.630) to as they start to get involved to they've been involved for a while. Is there a particular journey that you see commonalities in different phases of the process of being isolated and alone to having curiosity, joining and then improving and getting more out of it. Nicky Billou (20:36.725) Yeah, so when men come to us and they start with us, the first thing they're startled about is how direct our communication is. Because modern communication is very feminized and it's not very direct, it's indirect because that's how women talk. And so when they're around us, they're like, Holy crap, you guys are direct to the point of rudeness. Coach Brian Parana (20:53.898) Yeah. Yeah. Nicky Billou (21:5.419) I don't think we're rude. We're not at all rude, but we are very direct. So that's one thing that startles a lot of men. And after a while they love it, they crave it. They want that direct conversation. Some men just get too scared and they don't. And that's cool. We're not for everybody. We're not trying to change the mind of a beta soy boy. We're really not. We just want to change — not even change the mind. We want to bring in people who believe what we believe. Right. So that's really, really important. Nicky Billou (21:35.734) And I'll tell you a couple of stories. So there was a man who came and joined us, and he was broke, on unemployment slash welfare when I met him. He was with us for about a year and a half. Within three months, he was solvent. He was working and making money. Within a year, he had a full time job and a part time business. And he was making over six figures a year. Coach Brian Parana (21:39.209) Mm-hmm. Coach Brian Parana (21:43.892) Yeah, please. Nicky Billou (22:5.623) This dude was broke. Broke broke. Right? And this was not a business group. We didn't coach him on business. Blah, blah, blah. But I tell you, it was something special. It was something super, super, super special to see that happen for him. You know? There's another man that I invited to this work, right? And he was a clerk in the grocery store, owned by his brother-in-law. Coach Brian Parana (22:9.207) Nice. Coach Brian Parana (22:19.358) Yeah. Coach Brian Parana (22:33.066) Okay. Nicky Billou (22:35.799) Came to do our work within six months, decided to go get his mortgage license. Within you know, another three months, he quit working at the grocery store. And now he has a multi million dollar a year company. I mean, this is the kind of thing that can happen for a man out of being around a brotherhood of men, because those men are gonna listen to him. Coach Brian Parana (22:54.484) Mm-hmm. Nicky Billou (23:4.107) Like what comes out of his mouth is serious and they're gonna push him to take action on it. Coach Brian Parana (23:18.368) Right. That's good. And I've seen that in my groups. Mine's obviously focuses around health, improving your health, but once we start to gain responsibility around what you eat and how you move your body and it starts to drift out into the other areas of life. I've had plenty of guys that have Coach Brian Parana (23:40.274) lifted up their relationships, got out of relationships, improved their job situation, started businesses, all sorts of different things that they felt restricted on or they couldn't do or they didn't have access to and because they just believed that was the way that it was. And as soon as we can get them to gain confidence and energy for themselves and stand tall in their own embodiment, then we see opportunity everywhere. Coach Brian Parana (24:6.131) So that's really awesome to see these things. What are some of the undertones or characteristics of someone who is say lonely, that is isolated? What are they doing? What are the patterns of behavior that you see so that guys can even maybe self-identify here and start seeking out more group brotherhood and manhood? Nicky Billou (24:28.109) Well, they don't have any friends. They don't have any friends. That's the bottom line. They feel lonely. They spend a lot of Friday nights alone. You know, maybe they date, but Nicky Billou (24:41.943) There's nobody super serious in their life. Or maybe they're even married. Maybe they're even married and they got kids, but they got no men in their lives. They got no real friends. All they got is their family and they work their butts off. They got no real friends. Like look, I got friends. I can call and go, Hello, you want to go see a game? Let's go catch a game. I got friends. I call them up and I go, yo, you want to go grab a bite? Let's go grab a bite. Let's talk. Coach Brian Parana (24:49.748) Yeah, they're swiping left or right, right? Nicky Billou (25:11.147) There's guys who can't do that 'cause they don't have that. Nicky Billou (25:15.051) Messed up, if you think about it. Coach Brian Parana (25:25.726) Yeah, but I invite my friends over here to work out and spend time together that way because it's a retreat from their everyday life. Health isn't as a priority as much as it is in my life and that's fine. But we have lots of commonalities of our parenting. We have four kids. So like the top two have four kids and so do I. So there's a lot of commonality. Yeah. So it's like getting them over here into this barn space where I have like a gym's worth of Nicky Billou (25:41.869) That's a lot. Coach Brian Parana (25:55.593) of equipment, this is an escape for them. This is something different in their life that they can escape and then we can step up to a higher level, push ourselves and encourage ourselves with connection and brotherhood that way. Nicky Billou (26:5.485) Hundred percent. Hundred percent. It's a good thing that you got something like that going on. Coach Brian Parana (26:16.628) Yeah, definitely, definitely. How does — I know we talked about this too — is how does health play into this? 'Cause you've had some health changes in your life as well. Nicky Billou (26:21.345) Look, if you're a man and you let your health go to shit, you're setting a bad example for children if you got children. You're reducing your lifespan and you're gonna be unable to do the things that you really want to do because your health won't allow you to do that. Nicky Billou (26:48.065) You know, I just think it makes sense for men to want to optimize their health. Health is life, man. Your number one priority as a man should be to have good health, good life, strength, physical capacity, physical capability. I mean, if somebody got hurt, could you pick them up in a fireman's carry and take him to safety, right? Yeah, I mean that's kind of important, I think. Coach Brian Parana (26:59.094) Yeah. It's literally Nicky Billou (27:18.269) If you're somebody who hasn't taken care of your health, ask yourself why the fuck not? Straight on. Coach Brian Parana (27:34.718) Yeah, just yeah. Look at yourself in the mirror and ask that question. Call yourself out. It's okay. Nicky Billou (27:37.523) And you know Nicky Billou (27:41.260) Whatever the answer is, it's bullshit, it's a lie, it's an excuse, whatever the answer is. And then ask yourself, do you want to die young? And if the answer is no, then do something about it. Hire coaches. Like I mean, I hired a coach February 2023, helped me drop an initial fifty eight pounds, then got me to do a bodybuilding competition a year after that. And then I committed to Coach Brian Parana (28:9.739) Huge. Nicky Billou (28:10.241) go get my pro card. So I'm now two years into that prep journey. Two years into the prep journey of the pro card. I'll be fifty nine next month. At sixty I can start competing for the card. So I gotta work another year and then I gotta win Coach Brian Parana (28:23.154) A journey. Yeah. Two years, guys. Two years. It's not just — Yeah. Right? Nicky Billou (28:37.717) or place in three different types of competitions to get the pro card. So it'll be sometime in 2028 at the earliest that I'll get it. I'm eating to pack on muscle now. So I'm not as light as I was you know on stage or my leanest. And I'm not gonna lie to you, it's no fun eating a lot. I hate it. Coach Brian Parana (29:0.456) At your leanest, right. Nicky Billou (29:4.813) Fucking we'd rather eat to get lean. It's a lot more fun. Coach Brian Parana (29:13.800) Yeah. The results show and the results will show, but it's delayed gratification. On episode 133 with Jeremy Bacon, I talked with him and this guy talked about how he had five year window blocks of his life. And you're here talking the exact same thing. And so guys, recognize a pattern of behavior. If you're listening in here, it's not just what happens in the next week or in the day. We're talking about Coach Brian Parana (29:39.134) years of planning and preparation and delayed gratification to get to the outcomes that you want for your life and packing on enough muscle to have the physique that's gonna win a pro card, that takes years. It's not like, like Men's Health magazine, I opened it up to this page and started doing the workout and I'm you know, contest ready or something. It's not how it works. And especially if you haven't been working out for years. Coach Brian Parana (30:8.001) a lot of time to build a physique that will place you into that category. So for Nicky it's — this is important to him. He's made it a priority and it's a years worth journey to do so. I just wanna call that out. That's commendable. Nicky Billou (30:18.125) Thanks. No, a hundred percent. It's a journey. It's something that I'm on right now. There's a year and a half more to go minimum. We'll see what ends up happening. But it's no fun right now eating the game. I don't enjoy eating the game. I do enjoy leaning out. That's a way more fun process than eating the game and I'm very much Nicky Billou (30:49.502) very much dealing with the process. I'm not the process of anything. Yeah, I'm dealing with the process. I'm doing what I gotta do. And I say to anybody who's over here saying to anybody who's over here. No he doesn't need to. I do what he says. But the Coach Brian Parana (30:59.050) Yeah. Well you have a coach. You got a blueprint. Yeah. Yeah. Coach Brian Parana (31:7.498) And I'm sure your coach calls you out. What does he say? Nicky, eat more. Coach Brian Parana (31:16.060) Yeah, I know, I know. But if you were to need to, he'd just like, dude, this is the plan. Put some more food in your face. Let's go. Let's put some muscle on you. Nicky Billou (31:18.629) He doesn't need — he wouldn't do that. He'd fire me. This is a serious commitment, if you don't follow through with this level of coach. Like if you're in the NBA and you're playing basketball and your coach says I need you to do this and you don't do it, they trade you. They don't go, no, do that — no that is not accurate. No, it's not, that's not an issue. The process of Coach Brian Parana (31:32.116) Yeah. That's awesome. Coach Brian Parana (31:38.688) Right. Yeah. Coach Brian Parana (31:45.086) Right, right. No. No. No. Agreed. Agreed. That's awesome. Nicky Billou (31:46.497) doing this, the process of training is Nicky Billou (31:51.406) for me to be on. I just do weekly check ins and he makes tweaks around the edges of what I do. If I'm having an issue with something or something isn't working, I also check in on that. But it's Nicky Billou (32:10.603) Guys who are serious don't mess around. They just don't. This guy doesn't work with people. Like I sent him a friend of mine as a client and he fired him after a month. Fired my friend. Coach Brian Parana (32:20.982) Right. No, you execute. Nicky Billou (32:27.753) No, he just said, You're not doing what I'm telling you. Thanks bye. You know, and my friend was like, I can't believe that. I'm like, dude, I got you the best coach. The part of working with the best coach is you gotta do what he says. If you're not gonna do what he says, he's not gonna work with you. And he says, what do you mean? And I said, Look, man, if you were trying to play basketball and you were with a Coach Brian Parana (32:31.158) Like this isn't gonna work. Nicky Billou (32:56.375) Top level team. If Phil Jackson was your coach and he told you to do that, would you fucking slay it? Would you tell him, you know what, man, I forgot. I slept in. No, you wouldn't do that because he wouldn't put up with that for a second. No, no, no. That's that. That's a fact. That's a fact. Yeah. Coach Brian Parana (33:4.148) Yeah, that's exactly the coach I was thinking of, Phil Jackson. Coach Brian Parana (33:15.912) forget that. No. This isn't gonna work. No. Coach Brian Parana (33:30.548) Now with the group, how long have you been running it? Like what's some of the evolutions that you've been? Like maybe give us a sneak peek behind the scenes of what goes on there so that guys can actually get a taste of what this is and what it actually means. Because as we have been sharing, if you are alone, you have no clue what Coach Brian Parana (33:58.164) the masculinity or manhood or brotherhood can be and the impact that it can have. Nicky Billou (33:59.608) Well, I started running this in February 2018 with a fella that I had run some other programs with in men's work that were part of a different organization. And I just walked up to him and I said, Look, I don't like how these guys are running things anymore. And I want to go start my own thing. Do you wanna join me? And he said, Yeah, all right. Just like that. Yeah, all right. And he's a busy, busy dude, right? He runs a multi million dollar company. Nicky Billou (34:27.863) He's got shit to do. He's a father with two daughters. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's got a lot on his plate. But we started and we got eight, nine, ten men, and the whole process was up and down for about four years. And then three and a half years in, I said, All right, let's make some changes, let's name the group, let's Coach Brian Parana (34:54.442) Mm-hmm. Nicky Billou (34:56.471) come up with a statement of purpose and I said we're also gonna start charging. I'm not gonna do this for free anymore. Four years for free was enough. And we started charging 50 bucks a month and or you could pay five hundred dollars for the full year in advance. So all right, shit happened, we Coach Brian Parana (35:6.782) Right. Coach Brian Parana (35:13.194) Yeah. That is yeah. Nicky Billou (35:25.737) Sign up a bunch of guys starting January 2022 and the idea was to grow this. And we grew it to a certain size, but we kept losing men. We kept bringing men on and kept losing men. Up and down. And I was just wondering why. And then we realized our standards weren't strong. So we started to raise our standards. Right? The higher we raised our standards, the more structure we put in place. Nicky Billou (35:56.994) The better it got, and the more men stuck with it. The right sorts of men. So, you know, we've been as low as 11 men, and we've been as high as 29 men, and we're right now at 25 men. But we've been on a pretty steady upward trajectory from the high teens to this 25 level for about a year. And I want to get us to 30. And I want to get to Nicky Billou (36:24.673) 40 and then 50 and then a hundred. So to get to thirty right now, we need you know five solid men who are gonna come, who are gonna like what we do, and who are gonna stick with it. The price is up to a hundred bucks a month now plus tax. The men that we're looking to bring on are men who value other men, value being held accountable and Coach Brian Parana (36:28.890) Mm-hmm. Nicky Billou (36:54.187) value doing what they say. So they're gonna show up to meetings. 'Cause if you don't show up to meetings, man, you're not gonna last. You gotta show up — that's the bare minimum. Like if you're coaching somebody and you're working and they don't show up, I mean, after a while it's just Coach Brian Parana (37:5.803) Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Nicky Billou (37:9.419) Yeah. And you don't want them. You don't want that kind of client. You want a client who's gonna show up, do the work, refer you lots of people, right? Not some ghost. You know what I'm saying? Ghosting isn't cool. So Coach Brian Parana (37:13.450) Yeah, they fade. Yeah, it's guaranteed 'cause it's not valuable. Totally understand. No. Yep. Coach Brian Parana (37:25.010) Mm-hmm. Nicky Billou (37:25.153) When you come to meetings, meetings start with a check in. So we have a process for checking in, a man's in charge and everybody checks in. And then after check in, there's usually some level of content that we bring in. The content could be around relationships, around fatherhood, could be around success and making money. Doesn't really matter much, you know. Nicky Billou (37:53.164) What matters is that we always have content that's a value to men that's top of mind for men. And every meeting, when a man checks in, there's at least one man who checks in and isn't checking in very high. Like he's like, something's going wrong in this world. So we'll go and do a deeper dive into his check-in. Right? So you're checking in from one to ten. Yeah. Most men are checking in eight, nine, ten. Coach Brian Parana (38:22.760) Okay. So triage in a sense. Nicky Billou (38:23.167) A man checks in at a five. Okay, why'd you check in at a five? Yeah, why'd you check in at a five? What's going on? And he might just say, I'm sick, otherwise I'm fine. Then okay. Take care of yourself. You know, if you need to go, leave, go to bed, whatever, do what you gotta do. But if he says, My wife left me, my wife caught me cheating on her, I caught her cheating on me, my fifteen year old was caught doing marijuana. Coach Brian Parana (38:28.421) Mm-hmm. Coach Brian Parana (38:32.050) You're on the hot seat now. In a good way. In a good way. Right. Nicky Billou (38:52.533) in the school bathroom. My fifteen year old got his fifteen year old girlfriend pregnant. My fifteen year old daughter's pregnant by her fifteen year old boyfriend. Like shit like that happens, right? And Nicky Billou (39:5.326) Hey man, you can say no, thank you all you want. It's not on you. It's not on you, man. So that's the sort of thing that will throw the entire agenda out the window so we can help that individual man. And sometimes we can spend the whole meeting on one man or two men that are dealing with stuff. But men leave there at least knowing that they're not on their own and they leave there knowing that they can reach out to other men for help. Coach Brian Parana (39:7.444) Yeah. No thank you though. I'm not interested in that. Right. Uh-huh, but it happens. Uh-huh. Right. Yep. Nicky Billou (39:32.009) Sometimes they get real resources that can help them deal with it and solve the problem. Coach Brian Parana (39:42.881) Right. That's ultimately even with my stuff is solutions. We need to find solutions for the active daily life that you're living so that you can improve it and get better. Very much so. Nicky Billou (39:49.709) Yeah. Coach Brian Parana (40:0.687) Excellent, excellent. So there's a lot of topics that go on in the group and you're able to really facilitate a lot of positive transformation and connection in these guys' lives so that they can grow and just improve. And ultimately the word that comes to my mind is have more agency, have more ability to self assess, to be able to be self reliant and Nicky Billou (40:1.389) Tons bro. Tons. Coach Brian Parana (40:28.160) I still have reliance on the group, but to just not run into — I don't know what the best way to call, but like lower level problems. We don't want like some of the examples you give, that just shouldn't be in a relationship. If that's what you're doing in a relationship, then you should just leave it. Nicky Billou (40:46.007) Well. Nicky Billou (40:50.165) Every man's gonna go through something or another. You're not gonna live a problem free life. And you could be the best man, you could have the best situation. Problems will find you. It's not something that's impossible. And you know, in this day and age, best you can do is go out there and surround yourself with good, like minded men. Coach Brian Parana (40:58.720) They will. Coach Brian Parana (41:1.256) Never. Agreed. Coach Brian Parana (41:6.478) Right. Problems will find you. Yeah. Right. Nicky Billou (41:18.199) to help you navigate your way through them. But I have problems. I mean, I told you when I spoke with you the other day, you know, I went through a stressful situation with a business project that I was doing with someone else and Coach Brian Parana (41:26.568) Mm-hmm. Yep. Nicky Billou (41:39.433) Lack of sleep was a result of that. Lack of sleep led to my nervous system to just succumb to this bug that's going around. And I've had a stomach bug for a week. I've had — you know, I'm a carnivore, but you heard about this bug that's going around on produce. So that has affected me. I've had an infection. Coach Brian Parana (42:7.787) Yeah. Right. Right. Right. All right. And if you're trying to eat and gain muscle, you can — if you have digestion issues, period. Nicky Billou (42:8.809) It is nasty. I've been tired. All of that. Well, I'm doing my best, but I'm a mess, bro. Like I'm telling you straight up, this is not my highest energy self. I'm usually very high energy and right now I'm not. I'm just — you know, when you and I are done today, I'm gonna go drink some water, take an — and I know normally don't take drugs, but this infection's too strong to heal naturally. So Coach Brian Parana (42:23.444) Right. Right. Nicky Billou (42:37.867) I'm going to take some antibiotics, which I've been taking daily. In a couple hours, I'll take some magnesium. And I'm going to crash for two hours, bro. And then I never do that during the day. I never do that during the day. But I've reached out to the men in my community. I reached out to my health and fitness coach. I'm like, what should I do? And they're like, go see a doc. Went to see a doc. Coach Brian Parana (42:51.220) Yeah. Different season. Right. Yeah, yeah. Right. Nicky Billou (43:6.337) Get more sleep. Went and got more sleep. You know, I canceled a lot of meetings. Reason I did this meeting with you today is I really liked our conversation yesterday. And I thought, you know, I thought this is a good man and I want to build a business relationship with him. So yeah, let's do this. And I don't wanna — you know, if I didn't do it today, you were about to leave and then I was gonna be available. It'd be three weeks and I go, you know what? Coach Brian Parana (43:9.322) Yep. Get some more sleep. Coach Brian Parana (43:22.868) Yeah. Yeah, it was quick, right? Coach Brian Parana (43:28.598) Appreciate that. Nicky Billou (43:36.929) That relationship would have started and then fizzled out. So I said, screw it. Let's do like a 45 minute podcast with this man. Let's book our next conversation. And that's valuable, that's necessary. And all of that's possible because A, I know how to think that way, but I know how to think that way because I got men that I bounce shit off of. And I've learned how to think by the wisdom of others, you know, because on my own. Coach Brian Parana (43:37.524) Yeah, got a vacation. Right. Yep. Let's just go. Let's go. Coach Brian Parana (43:53.856) Yep. Yep. Nicky Billou (44:6.667) I likely would have said, That sounds great, Brian. I'm not feeling too good. Why don't we talk in two, three weeks? And either me or you would have forgotten it by then. Let's face it, life gets busy. Nicky Billou (44:20.257) Maybe we would have booked it. But you understand what I'm saying? It's not the same. No, no, but you understand what I'm saying. You understand what I'm trying to say here is that left to my own devices, there would have been a certain track I would have gone on. Because I have had ongoing wisdom and advice and feedback from men I respect and trust, I made a different decision. That's all. Coach Brian Parana (44:20.584) I mean we would've booked it. I'm the type of guy who's like, let's book before we get off this call. So it would have happened between you and I. You know, we got strong magnetism, but in other cases you're right. It wouldn't have happened. I totally — Coach Brian Parana (44:41.213) Yeah, totally. Yep. Yep. Coach Brian Parana (44:54.848) Yeah, yep, yep, yeah, totally. I've got two guys in my group right now, Eric and Dom. They just joined. They're maybe a weekend. Both of them have travel within the week of joining. And I said, Hey, regardless of if you're leaving your house and going somewhere else or not, you still have to figure out what you're doing with your food, with your nutrition, with taking care of yourself. Do you think you'll be healthier and better off when you come home with my guidance or without? Coach Brian Parana (45:22.546) And do we want to start now or do we want to delay it for three weeks? Like you tell me, because I promise you we will do our best to give you the experience that you want and feel good about it. Like the guy's going on a cruise. Great, let's have a really fun time. But going on a cruise doesn't mean you have to stuff your face and come back ten pounds heavier. That's not an enjoyable experience, especially when he has done that type of behavior for 20 years and he's 40 pounds overweight and he's got Coach Brian Parana (45:51.541) Blood panel issues and his 14-year-old daughter's looking at him like an overweight father that can't kick a soccer ball around with her. Like that, that's not it, man. So let's step up and figure out how to control yourself, make better decisions while we live life together. And that has to happen. So I commend both of those guys, Eric and Dom, for stepping up and just making things happen. And I see this pattern of behavior. The guys that take action start getting fruits of thy labor. Coach Brian Parana (46:19.868) And in the efforts that we make. And you see it too. It's like, let's go. Why wait? You've been waiting for years, most of the time, when I talk to people, and probably the same thing in your situation. You come across men, they've been waiting years to do something about themselves. And you can't just keep waiting because that's the worst place to be at. Nicky Billou (46:37.811) Amen, man. Well said. Well said. Coach Brian Parana (46:46.228) Yeah. No, it's excellent. Yeah, no, you and I would make this happen regardless. We're like magnets, we attract. So whether it would have happened today or the week after, it would have still got booked and made happen. So I definitely know that. Nicky Billou (46:59.105) Amen, brother. Amen. Coach Brian Parana (47:6.356) Yep. So what is some parting advice you have for the guys listening in that need help, that whether they do or don't know they need help because self-awareness is the first level of the game that you have to play. Being aware is just like, dude, you sit in your basement playing video games, scrolling on your phone all day long and have no interaction with people. You have to be aware that this isn't a life lived. Coach Brian Parana (47:32.532) This is just you existing and people mooching off your attention and your money. Nicky Billou (47:34.133) Number one, and this is really, really important. You should find a group of men. You want to come check us out? We're at sovereignman.ca. Come to a meeting on Zoom. First meeting's free. See if this is something that resonates with you. That's the first thing. Number two, put your phone away a couple hours a day. Read, pray. Nicky Billou (48:4.897) Talk to a human being. Like have your phone be physically in another room when you do that for at least two hours a day. That's number two. Number three, take care of your health and fitness. Call Coach Brian if you are struggling and get your butt in gear and do something about it. Those are my three pieces of advice. Coach Brian Parana (48:31.808) Yeah. Yep, I agree. Excellent, excellent wisdom. Coach Brian Parana (48:36.778) Nicky, thanks for coming on, sharing your story. I know you shared it a couple of times, but it has led you to a very solid place to be able to understand connecting with men and having a brotherhood and having even in your situation, direct to the point, leadership wisdom bestowed upon you and being able to have access to guys that have a wealth of knowledge and experience to be able to give that wisdom to you and you being open to receive. Coach Brian Parana (49:6.782) But and I think that's the underlying message here of guys listening in. If you're not where you want to be at, you need to surround yourself by better people and seek out different relationships that can start to help you fulfill on that because everyone has problems. We all have challenges that we need answers to. And we can find that amongst other men that can help us and hold us accountable and get us to do the work that is necessary to develop the skills, the understanding, the behaviors, and ultimately the Coach Brian Parana (49:36.702) lifestyle that you rise up — and that's a message of mine, the Call to Rise is to rise up. And same thing with Nicky is we need you to step into a best version of yourself and keep refining that because iron does sharpen iron. So Nicky, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate you and our time and your story and your impact and everything. So I really appreciate it. And guys listening in, check the show notes for Nicky's — he's got a podcast Nicky Billou (49:51.705) Well. Coach Brian Parana (50:5.992) as well, Sovereign Man Podcast. So start listening to his. He's been doing it for a lot longer than I have, a couple of years. So there's a lot of episodes with a lot of good information there. And then take some action. Do something. And if you need some help with your fitness, health, nutrition, then the Call to Rise is it. All right. Off we go. Have a wonderful day. Catch you in the next episode.