The Energy Debt Every Successful Man Is Paying with Adam Barney - 130

Most guys I talked to describe the same problem. They're doing everything right. They're showing up in the career. They are exhausted by 3:00. And sure, it could be a nutrition thing, even if they got a good night's sleep, but the challenge is it goes beyond that. We're just going to talk about some energy debt today.
We're going to talk about ikigai concept. There's four circles of what you love, what you're good at, what the world needs, and what you can get paid for. We're going to find those synergies that allow you to be some of your best self so that energy really isn't an issue. It just flows out of you like I feel every day. I don't that that that age-old saying of I don't work a day in my life. I love what I do.
My guest today is Adam Barney and he's spent over 20 years inside global companies manage hundreds of millions in ad spend, and then he decided to walk away to manage his own coaching practice to actually lift up the individual. His whole approach sits on one idea. It's really about exhaustion that successful men call burnout is actually debt and how you're not managing it.
And in my world, that debt is on your waistline and his is decision fatigue, burnout, just this this maybe even dread of going into work or doing the things that you need to. So, we're going to be uncovering a lot today in our conversation and Adam is going to bring a lot to the conversation. Welcome, Adam. Thanks for coming on.
>> I am excited to be here, Brian. This is going to be a fun one. Um you know, I'm genuinely looking forward to it because I think your audience and my work overlap in a way that most people actually probably wouldn't expect at face value. >> Right, definitely. And that's one of the biggest reasons why this is the 130th episode for Driven Pile podcast, but I had done so many solo episodes and I said, you know what? I'm going to start bringing on subject matter experts and start expanding opportunities because
there has to be an intersection of where health and business and family and relationships and all these other areas of of life they intersect and and we will go over that like the concept of Ikigai where there's these overlapping circles of what makes you you and that's so important.
So bringing you on is is a a joy for me and I hope that the listeners are getting a lot out of it because the guys they want to perform, they want to succeed in what they define as success. >> Right. Right. Right. Yep. Yeah, I mean I think, you know, just to kick things off a little bit on this sort of energy debt idea, um to kind of back it up a little bit though, when people hear that I'm a leadership coach, I think that they and our listeners probably immediately picture sit that I'm standing in boardrooms, right? And in strategy sessions and with
executives in suits and sure that's part of what I do. >> Right. >> But underneath it all, I'm I'm really in the business of just helping people get their lives back and that's what energy debt means, right? Because >> Right. >> you know, here's what I've really noticed over 5 years of building this is the people I coach are not anywhere close to lazy, right? They're not unmotivated.
>> Not at all. >> They're actually some of the the highest performers, hardest working people I've ever met, right? They're founders, executives, leaders, they're parents. >> Mhm. >> They're the people everyone else in their orbit depends on and yet they're exhausted in the middle. So >> Right. >> that's that's where that energy debt comes in.
It's not because they aren't capable, it's because they're simply carrying too much and I think that's actually become one of the defining health challenges of where we are right now in our generation. >> I totally and even one of the huge reasons why in recent time I've shifted toward 40 year old men or older is I'm 43 and I'm feeling the pinch of life all of a sudden of growing kids, aging parents, more responsibilities.
You know, we have all this things ownership. Ownership creates a lot of responsibilities and like my hot tub, I had to fix the control panel. I didn't want to. It was 150 bucks. I'm like and a bunch of time that I go figure out how to do the thing. I'm like, oh my gosh and it's just something else and and I think a lot of guys are feeling that and that something else overtakes their ability or their time to take care of themselves because oh well, tonight after work I have to go fix the hot tub control panel. So, I'm going to
skip my gym workout or whatever and that builds up and and we need to burn energy to manage the the energy debt that we're accumulating in all these other generally stressful life situations. >> Well, and and and you know, Brian, I go back to my corporate career, right? I spent 20 years in corporate marketing across, you know, companies like Microsoft, Digitas, Akamai.
I managed as you said, you know, over 100 million dollars in advertising spend. I led teams. I hit quotas. I climbed the the what I now believe is a false ladder. >> [laughter] >> On paper I was doing everything I thought I was supposed to do and if you would ask me back then if I was successful, I actually probably would have said yes.
>> Right. >> You know, but if you would ask me if I was healthy, I don't think I would have even known how to answer that question, right? >> Right. >> I probably would have immediately gone to well, I could probably lose a few pounds or I should probably work out more. But what I wouldn't have said was I'm mentally exhausted or my calendar owns me or I don't know how to stop.
>> Right. >> Um and I think really it's I've become really good at producing, but not very good at recovering. And you know, looking back, this is the case of one where I started here. I don't think I was managing my energy at all. I was just spending it. >> Mhm, right, right. And you have a big concept around We'll start with the energy balance versus and and debt.
Let's define that a little bit more so that guys understand exactly what that means to them. >> Well, well, can I can I back up maybe a little >> Yes, fully. >> And also, I think you talked about this a little bit in terms of how life changes over time, right? >> For a lot [laughter] of our listeners, in that realm of men over 40, have realized that cuz life has a funny way of interrupting, let's say, the stories we tell ourselves.
You know, in that corporate journey, I got laid off, and I'll be transparent about that. It wasn't once, it was twice. >> Ah. >> I remember vividly thinking, you know, if my identity can disappear because someone I've never met actually changed an org chart, maybe I've built my identity on something that was never mine to begin with, right? And that question stayed with me.
Who am I without the title? >> Right. >> Who am I without the business card? Who am I when no one's applauding? And honestly, Brian, I think every human, but especially modern men, eventually have to answer that >> Yes. >> You know, sometimes it's retirement, sometimes it's losing a job, sometimes >> When things slow down, you get slapped in the face of what's going on.
>> it can be a divorce, it can be a health scare, become being becoming a dad, right? Eventually forces the question. >> Right, right. Now, that's huge because and and and any of those situations, life is [clears throat] pulling you back in a sense and trying to seek out some level of balance then because you have to address it >> [clears throat] >> because you went to work 60 hours plus a week and now you don't have that. Yeah.
What how fill your time and who are you as a person to then what is it that you actually do and that's where you even say midlife crisis is happening where is you would spend so much time and energy in a corporate false ladder in a sense and I I think a lot of guys could probably resonate with that because you are ultimately building someone else's dream >> [clears throat] >> and whatnot and and getting paid for it but not to the degree at which they you and I are both are building our own things. But Yeah, it ends up slowing
this the cost of slowing down really then forces you to re-evaluate who you are as a person. >> Yeah. Well, and and I think I started realizing that almost everything I'd been taught about success had left out that really important ingredient of energy. You know, energy isn't excitement. It's not motivation. >> Yeah.
>> Energy, you know, is what it is because motivation even comes and goes. Energy is what allows you to show up when motivation isn't there. And I realized that no one had ever taught me how to manage it. You know, even though I'd read books on productivity, on time management, leadership, marketing, sales, negotiation, >> [clears throat] >> influence, no one had ever taught me how to protect the thing that made each of those possible and I think that's especially true for men.
You know, we're told to push. We're told to provide, to produce, to perform, to just keep going. >> Yep. >> We celebrate the grind, wear exhaustion like a badge of honor. >> Yep. >> But somewhere along the line >> [clears throat] >> and I will also say that I have identified self-identified with those characteristics or have done those things from sleeping 4 hours a night when I had a gym back in 2011 to just always working to like all these things, yeah. Totally feel that.
>> Well, and then somewhere along the way being tired becomes the proof that you were working hard enough, right? >> Right. Right. >> You know, >> the the problem here is your body doesn't care about your LinkedIn profile or your bank account, but it keeps it keeps score anyway anyway rather, and it eventually it actually starts whispering, right? You just met You don't sleep as well.
You're shorter with your kids. You stop calling your friends. You gain a little weight. Patience get [clears throat] thinner, and you're constantly saying, "After this project XYZ, I'll take care of myself." >> Right. >> But then after that project project comes another project and another. >> And there's always something else, right? >> [laughter] >> Well, then one day you wake up and realize you've spent years postponing your life.
And and I think that's one of the biggest lies people tell themselves also is that I'll take care of myself after, right? >> Oh, uh I see that so many times when people show up on my doorstep because they are in some form of poor health, and they had just not taking care of themselves. And and it shows up in all sorts of ways from the obvious being overweight, but chronic illness, diabetes, cholesterol, blood pressure, they're on medicine.
I've I have two guys right now that are dealing with stage three kidney disease chronic kidney disease. And >> [clears throat] >> some of it is from both of them two common themes is that they barely drink water. Your kidneys are a filtration device in your body, and by naturally if you just if they literally doubled their water intake right there.
Yeah, right here. Cheers [clears throat] to water, right? >> [snorts] >> But now now [clears throat] this is obvious, but we can't put our finger on it, but if they were to double their water intake for a decades, maybe their kidneys wouldn't be so strained. Cuz they're both in their 60s. >> Right. >> I mean, we could go out on a limb and assume it's certainly assuming is one thing or another, but we could probably that, hey, if you if you actually drank water and and both of them were overweight by a lot at one point in their life as well. So, there's all
these telltale things that ultimately, [clears throat] when we look back, we can see why they are where they're at now, unfortunately. Uh and so, again, uh this isn't a We're not doctors and we can't diagnose or say that one thing caused anything like that. Just going to throw that out there. >> No.
No, but but it's always this idea of like, I'll do it after the promotion, after the kids get older, after we buy the house, after this quarter, after this launch. And the big problem is the fact that after never arrives. >> Never. >> Life just keeps naturally asking for more. You know, so eventually you you actually have to stop asking when life is going to slow down and start asking, how do I become the kind of person who can stay healthy while life stays busy? And that's a completely completely different question, and that's become my life's work.
>> Right. Tomorrow's always tomorrow. >> Right. >> It's never today. >> Right. >> And I will >> You know, but but Brian, don't get me wrong. Like, nutrition matters, movement matters, sleep matters, hydration matters. They're foundational. But but I think we've accidentally treated health like it's a collection of habits instead of an operating system.
And I would say for for the you know, the listeners here, think about your phone for a second. You know, if your operating system on that phone is corrupted, it doesn't matter how many great apps you install. >> Nope. >> They're all running on unstable software, and I think people are exactly the same way.
You know, you download another productivity app, you buy another planner, start another diet, listen to another podcast, uncompletely intended. But if the operating system underneath all of it is is exhausted, nothing sticks. >> Right. >> And that's then about people rebuilding from the inside out. You know, sustainable health isn't just about what you eat, it's about how you lead yourself.
>> Of course. Definitely, definitely. And change is the only constant that we have. Even right now, I was love to bring this up. We're about 14 minutes into the show. We haven't moved. Right? We are we are locked in in front of the cameras and our mics. But, if we look at if we zoom out to 1,000 mile radius, we moved a lot.
This earth has been spinning around in orbit and it's constantly changing the the our actual physical location in time and space. So, it is by constant change and then being able to adapt around and those are some of the true things that people just aren't paying attention. lot of people are scared of change or they don't want change or they they they get comfortable and they don't want to evolve or be mean and agile with whatever the situation is.
Even that's what this podcast came out of is like, "Shoot, I've got an open day. I need to do something with it." And I literally 8:15 in the morning sat down and figured out how to do a podcast and by midnight I was posting my first podcast on Apple and I was like, "Yay, I did it." >> [laughter] >> Right. >> Right.
Right. But but I mean, kind of like like bring it back to like an almost an operating system level and you know, you mentioned ikigai before. >> Yeah. Let's talk about it. >> Um and I'll be I'll be honest, Brian. You know, this this this all started because I fell in love with ikigai years ago. You know, and for anyone who hasn't seen it before, it's a Japanese framework that's often described as helping you find purpose through four simple questions.
Um but but I mentioned that now because that's the part that should ground you through all of this change, right? It's what do you love? What are you good at? What does the world need and what can you be paid for? And you know, when I even I first saw it, I remember thinking this is beautiful, right? [clears throat] It >> Yeah.
>> for the first time it acknowledged for me that fulfillment isn't just about money, it's actually about internal alignment. So, >> Right. >> you know, I started using it with coaching clients and then something interesting happened. I'd have founders sitting across from me or executives who love what they did.
They were phenomenal at it. Their clients desperately needed their work. They were making more money than they'd ever imagined and they were completely burned out. >> Mhm. >> And I remember thinking, wait a second, you know, according to the framework, everything should be working, but it wasn't. >> Right. >> So, instead of me going and asking, you know, what's wrong with these people, which [laughter] isn't the right question, I started asking what might might be what might the framework actually be missing? And I think that's
one of the biggest lessons coaching has taught me, you know, whenever reality and the framework disagree, trust reality. The framework needs to evolve and not the person. >> Right. Right. Yeah. >> And Ikigai Ikigai Brian though has has really transitioned into what what I now am calling the energy OS alignment framework.
And and what changed for me from that original Ikigai was adding one really important dimension and that's sustainability because that's what this is what I kept seeing here. Did I miss you? Did I lose you? >> [laughter] >> Oh, man. >> A little technical there with the timer here. >> This is a different one. This is a different one here. Yeah, wow.
Our >> No worries. >> But it's funny. Talk about unexpected things that happened. >> Yep. >> our our power went off in the middle of this, but it also went off in the middle of middle of the night last night. So, >> [laughter] >> Yeah. It's the heat that you got over there in Boston. >> I think it's the energy here in Boston.
>> Swearing on the energy system of >> It's it's a great example though of how this works. >> Yes, exactly. And we have to adapt because change is constant. So, here we are. You're a wild >> Change is change is constant. I my monitor stopped working. Um there we go, but I'm back. I am back on the hotspot. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.
So, we were talking about ikigai and where all of these areas meet and what is important. You were in front of a wide variety of people and they're not in alignment. They're doing really they they and on paper again successful on paper, but their alignment inside there's a lot of friction happening with how they're taking care of themselves and all that.
>> Right. Well, then I think I was talking about sustainability, right? >> Right. >> When when we ran into that tech pickup, like someone could absolutely love their work, but never sleep. >> Right. >> Someone could be incredibly talented, but their their marriage could be struggling. Um you know, someone could be making fantastic money, but the anxiety was through the roof.
You know, and also you could be just making a making a huge impact, but quietly wondering how much longer you can keep doing it. And to me that's not alignment. That's actually survival. So, >> Right. >> you know, I I I've sort of redefined the way I think about alignment here because when four things overlap, what energizes you, what you're genuinely gifted at, what creates meaningful impact for other people, and what actually sustains your life, that that really hits the nail on the head. And it's not just financially,
it's emotionally, it's physically, it's relationally, it's spiritually. And if your career is costing your health, the way I look at it is it's too expensive, right? If it is costing your family, it's too expensive. >> I mean, let's think about it. A out-of-pocket expense on a heart attack is six figures.
You have to be doing pretty darn well at work to be able to just outright pay for that. >> Right. >> Well, insurance aside, but then the the not the financial hardship, but the physical hardship that comes from being a heart attack survivor, hopefully, because it could not end that way, right? You might die as well, which is catastrophic, obviously, but it's a >> Well, >> I've had some people be fine and others They They get wrecked in really bad way.
>> Well, and and I think that's This is where it's especially relevant for for for the audience here today. So many men in these modern times have become incredibly good providers, but somewhere along the way stopped asking, "What is that success actually costing me?" >> Right.
Right. What's the trade-off here? >> Right. Now, obviously, they're not failing, you know, but they're just succeeding by someone else's scorecard. You know, I did that for years. I measured my own worth by promotions, by titles, by raises, performance reviews, you know, the size of the team, the size of the budget.
And here's what the funny part is, every time I hit the next milestone, it felt good, but only for about 2 days, right? >> Right. >> Then the goal posts move. >> the goal posts. >> There's always another mountain. There's always another target. There's always another expectation. And I don't see that that is just ambition, actually.
That's addiction to external validation, and that's a big difference there. >> Yeah, huge difference. Very much so. >> And one one, you know, one question I love to actually ask my clients these days is, "If I took away your LinkedIn headline, who are you?" Right? And usually, that brings people to be really quiet because most of us have spent the decades answering the question, "What do you do, but very few have spent time answering who are you becoming.
And that's why I think health absolutely has to include identity. You can't separate the two. >> Right. Right. >> your identity depends entirely on performance, every minor setback becomes a threat and every missed goal feels personal or every layoff feels like you failed as a human being. And of course, I've lived that twice.
Um and when I got laid off the second time, I remember actually realizing something that sounds obvious now, but truly changed my perspective. You know, companies make business decisions. People make identity decisions. And I think a lot of leaders out there accidentally tie those two things together. You know, the company wasn't deciding my worth. I was.
And that gave me an incredible amount of freedom because if I stopped outsourcing the identity that I have, I could finally start to work to build it intentionally. >> Right. >> I I I'll even volunteer myself. I identify being a provider, literally in my brain, that's what I am. And when I have season of super busy work and seasons of not.
And in those seasons of not, if I'm not like bringing in the paycheck or making as much money as I have in the past or any of that, I start to I have more free time. And so we talked about that slowing down. And of course, I show up for my family like crazy. I'm at every event. I drop the even we have a two-week kids camp, a theater that we're sending them to.
I'm dropping them off, I'm picking them up every day at 9:00 and 4:00. So and then I'm doing other things with my kids and family as well. So I show up, but I even started to even a a slower season of work, so like who am I? Especially to say like my wife and all or how I I provide money but how else do I show up besides just being a taxi service as well in my family.
And and that's a challenging question to to have and and you do feel less than if you don't have a good answer solution in that that scenario. >> Well, I think that's actually a great great point to to to go to go into something here, right? Because I think it's a it's a great example that shows that people start in the wrong place.
Yeah. A lot of people ask what should should I add? You know, they automatically go to another habit, another app, another morning routine, another supplement, or a different productivity system. And I actually love to to probe the the opposite question. What what needs or what can come off your plate? You know, most people don't have an effort deficit, they have an elimination deficit.
You carry commitments you don't believe in anymore. You know, whether it's relationships you don't grow expect expectations you've carried along too long. You know, meetings that don't matter and or even guilt that isn't there's. You know, sometimes [clears throat] the actual healthiest thing you can do isn't adding something, it's giving yourself permission to stop carrying something and that creates space.
And once you have space, energy tends to come back. >> Yeah, let's talk about that space thing. I believe that's a huge component of coaching and I see it in my world and you probably do in in yours. We slow down to start focusing on this area of whatever your focus is. So, for me, a huge amount of nutrition goes into the work that I do.
I get people to stop, take a picture of what you're eating and send it to me. Why? Because it's a pattern interrupt. It causes you to not just mindlessly put food in your mouth. You have to stop and think and address the situation of is this moving me toward my goals or away from my goals? And they these slowing down to simplify, and that's a huge component of what I do, too, is how do we make this easier? Constant question I'm always asking me is is this simplicity paradox of how do we make it easier for you to implement and simple strategies around just again
nutrition, picking a low-fat protein, picking lots of vegetables, some healthy food, a little bit of starch, and having a balanced plate of about 500 calories. If you do that the rest of your life, you won't have weight issues, I promise you. It just doesn't happen because that's how the human body, especially male human body, operates, and you will have plenty of energy, and you'll actually probably feel a lot better than the garbage you're probably putting in your mouth now.
>> Yeah. Well, and and you know, what one thing I you know, I would bring it back I to something I mentioned earlier. You know, one thing that I tell clients all the time is, you know, think of how good we are at protecting our our cell phones again, right? You know? >> Oh my gosh, I know where my cell phone is at at all times. Here it is.
>> We charge them every night. We'll update the software the second that pop-up comes. We change the battery. We panic if it drops below 20%. Yes. But then we run ourselves at 3% battery life for 6 months, and somehow that's the normal we live in, and it shouldn't be because >> you know, I'm like I'm like those phones that we all carry, we don't get a notification before we crash.
>> No, we do not. >> Our our spouse doesn't >> signs, but you're so blind to them. They Hey, why are you having your the like third pot of coffee today? >> [laughter] >> Well, and that's where our our our partners, our spouses notice, our kids notice, our coworkers notice. >> Um >> And if you don't want to hear it, they're just nagging you.
>> And even But even our body starts to notice. And we usually up here notice last. >> Yes. >> the part I work on to help people avoid, right? Is that being the last thing you you you focus on. >> Right. Actually this morning I had to say no to my son. I didn't want to, but tomorrow we're going to go a long run.
And I'm training for a marathon to race my oldest Levi at the Akron Marathon in September. I have 77 days left, which is crazy cuz I started the countdown timer at 250 or something like that, 248. So I'm running out of time, but >> Right. >> my second son Everett, he's running cross country.
He woke up before the theater camp today and he said, "I I'm going to run in the morning. Do you want to join me?" And it was just 3 miles, but I had to say no cuz I did 5 miles yesterday and I bike 2 hours and I need to make sure that I can run a long run on Saturday, which I will be running with him tomorrow.
So I had to say no today because I just my body I'm so 43, it's just it it's not going to work. >> You needed to recover. You needed to recover. >> And I slept probably an extra hour as a result of not waking up cuz he also has been getting me up on Tuesday, Thursday mornings and then we woke up early on Wednesday, earlier than I would have.
So we were waking up at say 8:00 normally, but I was getting up at 6:30 to be able to go run with them on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So we have to then energy debt. I had to say no to the offer of of working running with them. I said I said I did give him an option. Said, "If I wake up and I'm up, then I will run with you.
" But I slept till like 8:08. So I was like I was like a snooze button fast when I was supposed to wake up or something. >> Right. Right. Right. Well, that's actually that's a great place I think to get into a little bit more about energy debt, right? Because it's it's the idea I've been thinking about most lately. You know, everyone, especially our listeners here, understand understand financial debt.
You know, if I borrow money today, eventually somebody expects to be paid back and it's usually with interest. >> Yep. >> That energy works exactly the same way. The only difference is most of us don't realize we're borrowing. You know, every night maybe you're sad you're sacrificing sleep because I'll catch up this weekend. >> Right.
>> You're borrowing. Every time >> You got to watch this last episode. >> Right. Every Every time >> Or every time you stress. >> you skip the workout because work feels more important. Every difficult conversation you avoid. Every vacation where you're still checking email. It's the middle of the summer, right? So Or or every time again, you know, every time you tell yourself I'll deal with that later, you're borrowing.
And eventually the interest comes due. You know, we give it different names. Burnout, brain fog, irritability, weight gain, high blood pressure, feeling disconnected from your partner or your spouse, feeling like you don't recognize yourself in the mirror anymore. And none of those things happen overnight, right? They're they're often the interest payments on years of that accumulated energy debt.
>> Yeah, very much so. Even I want to throw this in here, too. You talked about financial debt. Everybody understands that. And in my world relationship would be calorie debt. You have accumulated this this calorie excess and it shows up on your waistline or your double chin and in your blood panels from years of just making not the best choice or skipping lunch and then overeating later, stressed out and eat something else.
And And so we have to find ways to pay off this energy excess that we have in in calorie what I would call calorie credit card debt. We keep borrowing from tomorrow. I'm just going to eat I'm just going to eat a little bit more today and I'll eat less tomorrow. Well, that's borrowing from tomorrow just like financial debt.
It's like, "Oh, I'll just spend a little bit more and I'll spend less tomorrow." That's not how humans work. So, that that that resonates quite a bit with what I talk about. >> this this kind of Brian, it changed the way that I think about my own life. You know, I used to think I needed better discipline. I now realize I needed better awareness.
That that's a huge different difference, [clears throat] right? Discipline is saying push harder where awareness asks, "Why am I running on empty in the first place?" And those are completely, completely different conversations. >> Very much so. Very, very much so. Now, how does ikigai fall into this energy debt balance and the the your energy OS? >> I mean, it's it's the start of it, right? You know, it's one of these simple tools and I'm a fan of more simple tools especially in this modern world because of that complexity, we need we we need. But to get into, you
know, sort of understanding where energy is leaking, it starts with that energy OS alignment framework. And, you know, it's how I look at it and it's inspired again by ikigai is it's what energizes you, what you're great at, what others need, and what sustains you. And then the center of that is plugged in, a plugged in state for that energy rebuilding.
And when energy, strengths, impact, and sustainability align, leaders end up operating with greater clarity, resilience, and purpose. And that that that's the easiest way. So, um you know, I I have a framework I can put, you know, with with the show notes here to showcase how to do this, but it's really just a four concentric circle with one circle in the middle exercise.
>> Right. >> Draw it on a blank piece of paper next to you or in your notebook. And then fill in each of those four corners and the things that overlap into the middle. That's the center of of the ikigai or the center of of your energy OS system. >> Right. Right. When you align with some of the inner dealings of who you are, that's one of the pillars.
I have two strong pillars in in the Culturize program. We have identity, I call it it's the call pillar, that's your identity. And the code is your mindset. These are super important in redefining who you are. So, we get more ikigai going on into your world because often times I'll run into a lot of guys that are out of alignment, especially with their nutrition, their health, because they aren't in alignment with what they do every single day.
They show up at work and they don't like that. They don't have great relationships or they don't know how to manage or foster those. There's and it's a lot often times it's a a skill set gap that they have that they have to find better ways. The easiest one in my world is cooking. Like if you don't know how to cook, healthy people prepare a lot of their own food.
Why? Because it's simpler and easier to for you to stay on track with what works best for your body, not just letting it McDonald's or someone else cook food for you. >> Yeah. Well, well, you know, going back to kind of the energy debt, um you know, it's it there are two kinds of energy actually, I think, within it also, right? There's this question of where are you leaking energy, not where are you spending it, but where is it leaking out? Those are also different, right? Some things cost energy, but they're worth it.
>> Yes. >> You know, putting your putting my daughters to bed, coaching someone through a breakthrough, recording a podcast like we're having today. >> Right. >> Those require energy, but they give something back. The leaks are >> I'll throw one in on my end is putting my daughter to bed. >> Yeah. >> We read every single night.
My wife has been instrumental Amber has been instrumental in getting reading into our kids. All four kids. We would read three stories a night. That was the kind of the check that we did do. So, we've literally been reading to them for years. My wife reads to the younger two now. The older two are they're they're just older now.
They don't want to sit on mom's story time, I guess. But, the younger Maxwell and Emmeline will. And then Emmeline and I go to her room to read and sometimes that turns into a 45-minute event. I'm reading myself to sleep. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> And then I'm like, all right, I got to go, Carl. You need to go to sleep and I'm falling asleep.
>> [laughter] >> Right. >> But, it's important. >> Well, but but the but then think about even after you read the leaks that come in after that, right? The notifications that you miss, the meetings that you're still having that don't have a purpose or just that building resentment. Maybe it's that need to that perfectionism.
But, I think it really is all controlling things that aren't yours to control, right? And those don't don't really cost energy at the face value. They drain it and they actually never refill the tank. >> Right. >> And I think that's about where you you need to start paying attention, you know.
One exercise I love is ridiculously simple. For for 1 week, don't don't track your calories. Don't track your macros. Don't even track your time. Track your energy. You know, every couple of hours just ask yourself two questions. What just gave me energy and what took energy away? And there's no judgment there. It's just data.
You know, most of us know exactly where our time goes. >> Mhm. >> Very few of us actually know where our energy goes. And after a week of doing that, you start to see patterns showing up. >> Right. >> You You it's a certain client. Maybe it's doom scrolling before bed. Maybe as you said before Brian, it's skipping lunch.
You know, maybe it's never actually asking for help. Or maybe it's saying yes when you actually knew in your heart that you want to say no. And you know, I actually think awareness creates creates options and options end up creating that freedom as well. >> Yeah, that >> You know, and one other thing I've learned is that energy is actually contagious, right? You know? >> Ah.
Yeah. >> If I walk into my house after a stressful day and I haven't processed any of it, my my daughters feel it. My wife feels it. >> Yeah. >> The dogs probably feel it. I don't have to say a word because energy walks into the room before I do. You know, but the opposite is true. When I'm grounded, present, and genuinely there, people feel that also.
You know, leadership also more broadly isn't just what you say, it's the emotional climate you create, whether it's at work, at home, really it's everywhere. >> Yeah, I totally agree with that. I constantly have clients that say just borrow my energy. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yep. >> I said you will only know me as this version of Brian of in quotations coach Brian.
You will only know a high energy, optimism, glass half full, sun's always shining type mode because that's what I have grown to do and be that leader in this specific area of life because that's why they're coming to me. I have to show up as the leader and that's my identity and there's energy that matches. But then my wife gets to see the the lower points of energy of just being tired, right? I I am a human being.
I only have a I'm not the Energizer Bunny, right? The battery does run out. >> Yep. >> And my kids and those closest to you in proximity end up obviously getting the brunt of that. Now, certainly I still try and hold optimism, but you get weary at times. >> That that that's that's important. You know, people people ask me all the time lately what leadership is from my perspective and you know, I'm honest, my answer has changed over the years.
I used to think leadership was influence. Now, you just were talking about this, I think leadership is actually stewardship, right? It's taking care of the people, taking care of the relationships and taking care of the energy you've been entrusted with including your own. >> Right. >> You know, if you're constantly flaming out or running on fumes, you eventually don't have anything meaningful left to hand to the people you love most and that's too high of a price tag to pay for success.
>> I I really agree with that. Very much so. And you have to find ways to recharge. Now, in in your coaching and all, what are some powerful ways that people do recharge? >> Yeah. >> That you get them to kind of check out of the day-to-day grind to check into their personal operating system, their ikigai. >> A really a really simple one I'd leave to love to leave our listeners with is, you know, don't ask yourself how can I be more productive? >> Mhm.
>> Ask yourself, where am I borrowing energy as you kind of alluded to earlier from tomorrow? Because that answer might be very quick to get to, number one, but it might change the trajectory of where you're heading. >> Mhm. Mhm. It's so important to not constantly borrow from tomorrow because it it it will catch up.
That's been the end of time. >> bill that bill comes due. That debt accumulates. That bill comes due eventually, right? >> And and we'll say this, I I remember Jim Carrey, I I ended watching a fair amount of motivational, personal, self-care type shorts and such on YouTube or whatnot and Jim Carrey [clears throat] said this of uh depressed is [snorts] deep rest.
That there is friction against >> Yeah. >> who you are and how you're showing up and that energy that is true and that's where depression can come from in one source, not every source, but and some and a lot of people it's that feeling depressed is that you're not in alignment with your own energy operating system.
And you then take deep rest because you are worn out and humans cannot keep up with modern-day pace of capitalism, of marketing, of branding, of all the things that are being advertised to you. It is lightning speed these days, especially with AI, and and this this is this content factory in a sense of grabbing your attention and that in and of itself so is is detrimental to you.
Just being caught in the attention trap of I'll even tell my kids, please guys, do not fall into living life 10 seconds at a time. You will wake up years from now with nothing. With someone just trying to grab your attention and nothing to show as a result. And often times like, so what do you watch? And just watch and they can't even tell me anything that they just watched.
Like, can you Oh, I don't I'm just about about it's like, no, no, seriously, this is a very important part in life that you're going to have to manage. We all have to manage our life is this this attention and it's going to drain your energy to do the things that you actually want to do and then you might end up with depression and have to rest, deep rest, to be able to get out of it.
>> Right. Right. Yeah, that's that's a My my first book is called make your own glass half full and actually my favorite chapter in it is about the allure of darkness, right? The allure of that negative. And that is a very very from both leadership perspective from the modern world that our children are growing up in, something that is continually trying to pull us in.
And you know, a lot of people probably don't outwardly view it as darkness, but it's that downward negative cycle and I I equate it back to this fact. Imagine yourself you you're in a you're in your bed, you're in your room, it's completely dark. Last night just as we did on this podcast, we lost power in the middle of the night.
It actually was completely dark. And in terms of energy and bringing it back into that that energy debt, imagine you can't see anything, it's pitch black and you the power isn't necessarily out, but you can you need to go find a plug and then plug into an outlet to turn a light on to be able to navigate and see.
That's what I do in terms of my transformation leadership coaching. I'm the one who helps guide your hand to find that plug in the dark and plug that light back in so that you can see once again. Because, you know, one one other thing that I love to say is, you know, it's Friday here in Boston, it's a little cloudy, I think it might thunderstorm later, but I know the sun is still up up behind those clouds somewhere.
>> I say the same thing. Like if it's light outside, the sun's shining somewhere. Just hidden behind clouds. Well, even if the even if it's the middle of the night and the sun's on the other side of the world, that sun is still shining, right? So, if it's gray today, it's >> It's cloudy.
We're getting the sun from the moon. Shining. [laughter] The reflection of the moon. >> that idea that no matter how tough today is, you can you can actually improve, right? When you start to identify those leaks, recharge your battery. Um, you know, it it it it gives you that hope and it kind of weaves back into the into the optimism that you mentioned earlier, right? I think I think people probably hear the word optimism and they make an assumption, right? Um, optimism means pretending everything's okay and that couldn't be further from
what I believe. Um, I actually wrote my book Make Your Own Glass Half Full because I wanted to reclaim that word and you know, optimism isn't seeing the world through rose-colored glasses. It's choosing to believe that your next decision still matters and that's really it, right? You don't have to know how everything works out. You don't have to fake being happy.
You don't need to ignore reality. I think real optimism starts by just, you know, looking reality squarely in the face. You know, it could be this is hard. I'm tired. I'm overwhelmed. I'm grieving. I'm scared. And then it asks, okay, now what? And that question now what? That's what I view as optimism because you remind yourself that you still have agency and you still have autonomy.
>> Mhm. And agency is super important to be able to execute on a high level of self inner self-reliance to be able to accomplish whatever goals you're trying to do. >> Well, and I don't I don't view the opposite of optimism as pessimism either. I actually think the opposite is helplessness, right? It's believing that nothing you do matters anymore and that's where I worry a lot of men actually are today.
They're carrying so much responsibility, they stop believing they have choices. They feel trapped. Could be by work, could be by societal expectations, by finances, or even just by the version of themselves they think they're supposed to be. And another part of my work is just reminding people you still have choices, right? You know, it's not it's every choice.
But enough to begin. >> Yeah. Power of choice. That's a huge undertone of what I introduce into my own curriculum with people is one of the first things. You have the power of choice. You're choosing what goes in your mouth. You're choosing how you're structuring your day and how you're managing your time and what you're doing with these things or how much you say yes or no to in your day in terms of other obligations and whatnot.
And we just want to make sure that we're in control of those opportunities so that you just obviously again stay in control and you are in the driver's seat. >> And when you start to see that choice, you know, you know, when you start to ask that um you know, it doesn't have to be big big choices.
They're actually usually much smaller than people would expect or think they need to do. You know, we love to talk about dramatic transformations. >> Yeah, right. >> We all love the I lost 100 lb story or I sold the company and you know, made a billion dollars or I quit my job. And life usually changes much more quietly than that, right? It starts with drinking water before coffee.
Maybe it's a 10-minute walk, putting your phone down during dinner. Text the friend you've been meaning to call or say no to one thing this week. >> Right. >> going to bed 30 minutes earlier or taking your actual vacation. None of those sound revolutionary, but they they change the trajectory of your life because they change who you're becoming.
>> Yeah. >> Small choices repeated constantly, that's how identities change. I saw a visual a few years ago in regards to this. Think about So, imagine you've got a plane that's flying from Los Angeles to New York. >> Yep. >> That's their original destination. If you change that simply like one or two degrees to a different destination, you end up in a completely different place.
>> so funny. Yeah, I was like, "Oh, we're flying from New York to London. And how do you end up in Morocco?" >> Right. A different continent. Right. >> 1% off and never course corrected. >> And and I think you know, one of my favorite quotes is from James Clear, who I think a lot of our listeners probably know.
>> Of course. >> Um but it's every action is a vote for the kind of person you want to become. Right? I think about that all the time. Um you know, every decision is either moving me toward the life I want or away from it. And it's not dramatically, it's gradually. >> Yeah. Very much so.
This is constant course correction. Even the another principle is the 5-lb rule. And that's what I want my guys and anyone I ever work with to get into a 5-lb weight range for the rest of their life. And and that 5-lb weight range, it's very easy to manage and balance that out. As soon as you get to say having to lose 10 lbs, that's 4 to 8 weeks of effort.
>> Right. >> Consistent effort that you have to do. Whereas if you're trending up in your 5-lb weight range, you knock off the nonsense for 2 days and >> Yeah. >> whatever you're trying to get away with, then it it goes right back down in the middle. Then you're like, "Ah, okay, we're good.
" And but there has to be a constant self-correction because life your your body isn't static. Your weight isn't static. You're you're a living being with inputs, outputs from your energy needs and demands from food, but then the all the things that we've been talking about internally, too. >> Right. Right. Right. And you know, I think this actually ties to something I also genuinely sort of believe.
Um you know, in this country, we overlook the greatest assets we have. You know, we celebrate talk about small changes and where smaller moves are actually more important. We celebrate those billion-dollar companies, you know, those unicorns, massive exits, huge valuations. And don't get me wrong, the stories, you know, they're inspiring, but I think we've condensed convinced people accidentally that success only counts if it's massive, right? >> Mhm. Right.
>> meanwhile, the businesses that actually hold our communities together are the ones we barely talk about. It could be the neighborhood coffee shop, the therapist, the electrician, the gym, the family-owned restaurant, you know, your your photographer, your coach, music teacher. >> Right. >> You know, but it's the people who employ It's the people who employ maybe three people instead of 3,000.
>> Right. >> Those are the businesses that create trust. You know, it's relationships, community, opportunity. They sponsor Little League teams, they know your kids' names, they remember your coffee order. They create places where people actually belong, and that's not small. That's foundational. You know, that's why I say micro is mighty because I think we're going to rebuild healthier communities one relationship at a time, and you know, honestly, Brian, I think that's health, too, right? We spend a lot of time
talking about nutrition. We don't spend enough time talking about belonging. You know, loneliness is one of the biggest public health challenges we're facing. >> Yep. >> You know, some of the most >> Most connected ever, and we're lonely. >> of the most successful people I coach, and I'm sure you feel this, too, are also some of the loneliness loneliness, right? Calendars are full, phone is buzzing constantly, but they don't have people that they can exhale around, right? That matters.
Health isn't isn't only what's happening inside your body, it's what's happening between people. >> Yeah, definitely. Social connections, and and we are relationship people. You have to have community. You have to have connection. And it doesn't have to be big, can be small. One, two, three core core people.
I have my four amigos in a sense. I've got Dan, and he's my high school, middle school friend. Yeah, I'm going to see him today in about 2 and 1/2 hours to work out. I've got Chris. He's a fellow father of middle school kids and Andy as well and I work out or run with those guys and then Leo's another high school friend that I still keep in touch with pretty regularly.
I'm actually trying to currently invite him as a guest on the show. He's a an elite marathon runner and has a chiropractic business and different things that we can bring to the show, but those are the say the closest network of people and then after that people are just acquaintances. But those guys, all four of those guys are super busy.
Literally everyone has three to four kids in my friend group. We are they're all of that teenish age middle and then >> to manage. >> you know, what? Three of us are business owners. >> Right. >> So it's just it's constantly busy, but we have to schedule time to and set it aside to spend time together and that's what we do. >> Well, and then this is why I mean, a lot of what what I do in the world, I was really excited when I when I introduced you to Antenna Up >> Yeah.
>> the Marketing to Men Summit that's coming up in New York in September and this healthier men at work concept because I think you and I, Brian, talk about the same thing from different directions. You know, you're helping men reclaim their physical health. I help them reclaim the internal operating system that allows that health to last.
And I don't think those are separate conversations. I think they're the same conversation, but those events coming up connect people together. You know, Janna Meriwether Turner, who runs Antenna Up, runs those summits. She also has a thing called the Buoys Club that is trying to work around finding the Buoys in our community that can work together.
You and I are both white men in this world, right? We've been taught that we grind, we lean in to ourselves, we'll find that happiness. That's not the truth. You have to find these connected webs of communities, and it's the magic that still exists on the internet that we can do this virtually. >> Right. >> But you never know what alignment you can pick up when you start to maybe get yourself a little uncomfortable.
But but put yourself out there to what's in the center of that ikigai exercise. >> Right. Right. No, I love it. And and being open and vulnerable to those opportunities is so important. And you can only do that, going back to the undertone of our whole conversation, is if you have energy, cuz you won't be able to pick it up if you're exhausted, tired, and fatigued.
You need to be able to to just see these opportunities and start to facilitate them. And >> Yep. >> relationships and and all this meaningful work takes effort. It takes energy to do. >> It really does. It truly does. Yes. Yeah. >> Excellent. Excellent. We've had a a very powerful conversation about energy. I hope that the guys listening in >> It's And it's ironic, also, Brian, that I lost my power in the middle of it.
That's >> Yes. >> [laughter] >> Warts and all, sometimes. That's also something that we need to talk more about, Brian, or the fact that that our warts are the things that make us make us stronger. They they build the calluses. They provide the armor that protects us when things get get hairy or or those changes that are constant challenge us.
>> Right. Yeah, very much so. Oh, yeah. The losing power in the middle of conversation about energy. It's comical. >> It's I love the irony when you find it. When you find it like I mean, we persevered, right? We kept on going. So. >> [laughter] >> Now, what's one takeaway that that you or you want to leave the guys with here through this conversation that is empowering, that that gives them motivation to move into the literally the next thing that they have to deal with in the day, the next challenge, obstacle, situation, or whatever.
>> I I I I'd love to leave them, Brian, with how much, you know, stop asking how much more can I handle, and start asking what kind of life am I building. Those are two completely different questions. One assumes life is something to survive, the other assumes life is something to design. And I think so many of us, as our conversation showed today, are incredibly good at enduring, but I want people to start flourishing instead.
If I could leave everyone with one challenge, tonight, before your head hits the pillow, don't ask yourself what you accomplished today, ask three simple questions. What gave me energy today? What took energy away? And who got the best version of me? And if the answer to the last question is always your clients, your boss, or strangers on the internet, I would say it's probably time to make some changes.
Because the people you love, the people closest in your circle, most deserve your best energy, and and so do you. >> Right. Yeah, and you deserve to give it to them. First and foremost. And protect yourself in in the other areas of life. Exactly. Awesome. Where can we find you, Adam? And certainly all this will be in the show notes.
>> Yeah. >> What's the best way to get in touch with you? Your podcast, all this stuff? >> The easiest place to find me is at adamwbarney.com. So, Barney like the dinosaur, or Barney Rubble, depending on your age. Um, I'm also active on LinkedIn every day, because I love continuing these conversations. You know, you can also find my book, Make Your Own Glass Half Full, and my podcast, Is Anything Real? The book is available wherever books are sold.
And honestly, whether somebody ever works with me or not, I just hope they leave today remembering your health isn't another project to manage. It's the foundation that every part of your life is built on. So, protect it, invest in it, and don't wait for a crisis to start paying attention to it. You know, the healthiest version of you isn't isn't good isn't just good for you.
It's a gift, I think, to everyone who gets to do life with you. >> Very much so. Very powerful. Thank you, Adam, and everyone else now listening in. Energy is finite. Everyone has the same amount of time, 24 hours, but you have different capacities for energy. And it's really important for you to be able to show up when you need to, set specific time aside to rest and have down time to then be able to re-power, recharge.
Whether that most importantly is sleeping an appropriate amount of time, taking 10 minutes after really busy, high-priority meeting to stop and be able to process what happened not just jumping in the next thing. That's so important to be able to have a little bit of a time gap, especially if you are a meeting-heavy person, you have to stop and think and collect yourself.
And and then eating the right food because food is literally energy to your body, and moving your body is literally energy in your body. And so, we have to have those as core components of your everyday life to take care of yourself. And for the love, I'll just throw it in there, drink some water.
Jeez, OB, like hydrate yourself because that will also give you energy, right? Think of it like this. Water is conductive, right? It's conductive. >> I need to go refill my water cup in this 100 100° >> Yeah, yeah, you're you're sweat sweating over there. So, take consider your energy, don't be in debt because it will cost you, and we don't need that.
>> Okay. >> Everyone, thanks for joining in for this episode of Driven for Health. Off we go. >> Thank you, Brian. This was Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun.